Karl Gotch and Jake Shannon Chat (06/01/05) Part Two

Jake Shannon - July 27, 2017
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KG: …over here. You know those bastards? You know those coaches? I didn't agree with that. I told you. I never imagined that would ever happen.

JS: What do you mean?

KG: They'd go around and they got like a bamboo stick, you know?

JS: Oh, yeah. I've seen that. You know who did that? Sayama.

KG: Yeah, but because he's a jerk and he couldn't take nothing himself, but he does it to somebody else.

JS: Yes, that's horrible.

KG: To one guy, he did it once and I walked in. I had been away for a couple of months and he was like he wanted to be the boss. And he was the worst. Him and Sayama -- they run away. When they trained Rikidozan, they run away and they quit, because he was in Mexico.

He came crying for me because he was starving to death to help him out, Sayama said. So, I said okay. I said, "Come over here. I'll get you in. You can't live with Fujiwara." And the other one. You know, Fujinami. I said, "But you'll have to get your way over here, so he did." They got money enough to fly over and a few bucks left. But they all forget that. You're kind to them. You give them a break and later on they shit in their hand and they put it in your face.

JS: Yeah, that's not cool. It's so weird. I don't know why that culture has changed. It just seems like everybody is out for themselves, now.

KG: That's it. Everybody for themselves, and the Lord for all of us.

JS: Yeah.

KG: You know how you say that in my way?

JS: Yeah. Like…

KG: Fuck you, Jack. I'm all right.

JS: What's that?

KG: Fuck you, Jack. I'm all right.

JS: Yeah, that's not very…

KG: That's how they do it. That's not the way to go through life.

JS: When I see on the Fujiwara Gumi tapes that it says, "All for one and one for all…"

KG: That's from me.

JS: Is that from you? I thought so.

KG: Yeah. When you're in a gym and your own work sessions, you've got to work, but all for yourself. They even send me a cap. I gave it to some kid. You know? Like those baseball caps?

JS: Okay.

KG: A black one, and there was red letters on. All for one, one for all. You know where I got that from, huh?

JS: Isn't that the Three Musketeers?

KG: Yeah. Alexandre Dumas. [Tous pour un un pour tous.]

JS: Yeah. I don't know. Everybody seems to be just so out for themselves. Like now, people are so shocked when I just call and I want to help them do something. Everybody's so suspicious. It's like, "Well, God, man. I can't just…" It's frustrating, but what can you do? I guess everybody's…

KG: Well, they're used to getting a price on it. There's a price tag on everything.

JS: Yes.

KG: Me, I never had that. Yes, they paid me. They paid me. That's what I'm living from now. But it was from the big company. It wasn't from boys. I was employed by the company and they were making millions and I just made a couple of thousand. Because it went from the promotions -- the Japanese Pro Wrestling. And then later made New Japan Pro Wrestling. Because they never owned their own, and so when I said, "Well, let's make a new thing."

So, boy, oh boy. That came to me. The only thing I asked was guts. You got it, I could teach. Do you not? Well, I saw in a hurry because you [packed in] yourself. You had to pass a test.

JS: Well, now that I've got the homework cut out for me, that's what I'm going to focus on.

KG: Well, you know what to do.

JS: All right.

KG: And you know, until you get that bridge up, what you've got to do is touch that wall with your chest. Then later on, once you get in, think about it. Don't fall off flat. When you go down, you bend your knees a little bit. Now you're throwing your belly forward and your point of gravity is forward. Now you come down easy on your head.

JS: Yes.

KG: You know what I mean?

JS: Yes, I do. To where your knees are way past your toes.

KG: Yes. But not too much. Don't go in your knees now that you got down. Like I see some of those chaps. Those Hindus. You know, those young guys?

JS: Yes.

KG: They were like they was going to pray. No.

JS: No.

KG: You put your leg, your knees over your toes and around the same time you arch your back. The secret is the arch in your back. The more you arch your back, the smoother you come down.

JS: Okay.

KG: The more because your back's stiff if you fall down…

JS: Yeah.

KG: …down like a board.

JS: Right. Because it's like flat out.

KG: No. Think about a waterfall. You've got a waterfall, right?

JS: Mm-hmm.

KG: It comes over the water, smooth over, right?

JS: Yeah, right.

KG: Once it goes on the end of the river. Now it goes on the fall, it turns in and goes over, right? Now, let's say that [the] water [goes] past that wall for a meter. Do you know what I mean?

JS: Mm-hmm.

KG: Now he isn't going to slow down. He falls down like smack. Do you understand what I mean?

JS: Yes.

KG: So, it's the same with you. If you bend your back smooth, you come down like that waterfall. But if you get your back straight, you come down like a board. Come down like a bag of shit.

JS: Yes. I totally understand.

KG: If you were with me, I had a lot of guys and in no time flat, I had them bridging.

JS: Well, I'm going to try that and then I'll try the rope thing, but obviously everybody's got a wall. I can just do it on the wall. It's real easy.

KG: Which rope? Climb a rope?

JS: Like you were saying. Where you put the rope on the ceiling and then you can use that to help yourself down in falling…

KG: No. Not the one you go on, on the wall. On the wall, you've got no rope.

JS: No, no, no. I know. I'm saying that I could use the wall and because I don't have a rope that I can tie to the ceiling right now…

KG: But you got to attach to something, no matter what.

JS: Oh, I see. It doesn't even have to be from the ceiling. You can tie it to anything and lean back.

KG: You can get that touched on anything.

JS: I see. I see what you're saying.

KG: …on a doorknob, or say that's something solid that you don't ruin. That breaks off or something.

JS: Right.

KG: Just [tie it] on something…

JS: And you lean back into it.

KG: That's it.

JS: I see. Okay, cool.

KG: You're another one of those educated idiots. All those guys I taught. It was like, Jesus Christ.

JS: I never said I was educated, plus you have to give me the benefit of the doubt because I can only…

KG: I can't, because you don't have a dumb cluck…

JS: I can't see when you say things, so I have to try to visualize it in my head.

KG: I understand. It's strange. That's why I tell you. A picture's worth a thousand words. It's like a guy from Europe. They're all, "He couldn't bare it." All kind of excuses. So, I says, "Oh, yeah." So, I got the picture here from those boys that was training with me. You know, the three? Malenko took the pictures. He was about 16 with me in the gym. And the guy that does the bridging is the Sicilian boy. And Link was a guy that I don't know. I haven't seen or heard from him for years now because he went to Texas.

I was very agile, but I would say like about 40 centimeters between my heels and my head. But that goddamned dago, he goes down and his head touched his heels.

JS: Wow.

KG: He's like a circle. You understand what I mean?

JS: Wow.

KG: After all those years, he's the only one that did it.

JS: My gosh.

KG: Believe me. I'll look if I've got those pictures and I'll send them to you.

JS: Okay, I'd like to see that. That's pretty amazing.

KG: And I think I've got some spare pictures and everything that I got, I'll send them to you.

JS: Okay. You have my address, right?

KG: Yes, I've got it. Anything on that, I save it. Yeah, he was something.

JS: Wow.

KG: So, the one guy I was talking about it, so I sent it to him. And the one in Belgium, you know? The one in England? And so, they went, "Oh, yeah, yeah, the one in Belgium." He then gave me some cigars, because he calls me every month. And every one month I call them and one month they call me. He said, "Oh, yeah. But my back, my back. Oh, I can't anymore because my back…" I said, "The Frenchmen, they always said it." [Ces excuses sont faites pour utilizer,] I said, "You're a Frenchman. These [excuses] are made to use." I said, "It's not your back. It's your fucking ass that can't get up. You're in a circle you asshole." That's the way I talk.

But see, if you're going to talk to a guy and you coach him, and you say, "Oh, come on boy. Come on. [This and that]." That don't work.

JS: Yeah.

KG: When you coach or when you're in a gym, there's always strong talk, like in an old Boxing gym or something.

JS: Yeah, it's because you're not there to be the person's friend. You're there to push them and make them better.

KG: And so the guy is at you and it's like he's up your ass. You understand what I mean?

JS: Yes.

KG: It's not like a schoolteacher or something. It's a completely different thing. It's coaching but for a fighting sport.

JS: Right.

KG: I said, "Come on, you asshole." This one guy, he's laying down and bridging. I said, "What do you call that? The bridge? You look like a fuckin' whore waiting for a customer." His father was there and he busted out laughing. He said, "You really give him more shit than I ever did, the way you do it, and it's really worth listening to." The old man almost pissed himself.

JS: That's funny.

KG: I said, "You whore, get up." Oh, I can't. I said, "Come on. Come on. Goddamned. You look like a whore waiting for a customer. You goddamned jerk."

JS: You know, but you're right. Because if you're not tough with them, you're not doing them any favors, because it's a tough sport. You've got to push them.

KG: And if you don't do it that way, it goes from worse to worse. Not worse to better. It goes from worse to where he's crying, "Oh. I can't." And he's trying [less now].

JS: Yes…

KG: You tell him. Sometimes I used to give him a kick in the ass and say, "Get up, you son of a bitch. What the fuck you coming here for? You're wasting my time and yours."

JS: Right.

KG: Come on, you son of a bitch.

JS: Exactly. Why are you coming here if you're just going to just fuckin' dick around.

KG: That's it. Then they do. And they listen to that because I found that that is the way to get their attention.

JS: Yes.

KG: Come on, boy. Oh, come on. You can do it. Come on, try. Come on. Then it goes from bad to worse.

JS: Yes. I agree. I agree 100%. I noticed that. Like when I'm nice to people, every time you do that, then it's like each week they do worse and worse. They get like less and less performance.

KG: Well, they know that they can get away with it.

JS: But they know.

KG: And they used to have the old saying, "Jesus Christ. It's no problem working out with me." I said, "Well, what do you want to come here for? For love lessons? It's my way or the highway. Come on. Don't waste my fuckin' time. I've got other things to do. If I've got to go through life looking through assholes like you, I might as well be dead right now. A waste of time, right? You come and you want to do that. Okay, try it."

JS: Yup. You're doing it right. All right. Well, actually I've got a date tonight, so I've got to get ready for the lady.

KG: Oh! Oh, it's not Jacov anymore. It's Romeo, now.

JS: Bah! No! I don't know about that. But I got to go talk to a girl every once in a while. Everybody will start looking at me funny if I don't.

KG: No. Well, you know. Casanova was an ugly son of a bitch and he had all of the broads in the world.

JS: I'll tell you. I need to talk to him because I'm about as ugly as you can get, so it's going to take me extra beauty time to get ready.

KG: Yes, but you've got the gift of gab, Casanova.

JS: That's true. You know what? That is the bottom line. If you can talk and you can make a woman feel good about herself and stuff, that is worth way more.

KG: Say it in the right way if you can bullshit and tell them what they want to hear. Don't give them anything that make them think or anything. That's over their head. No, you have to bullshit them. You have to smooch them. And that's all right.

JS: Yes.

KG: That's what the pimps usually do.

JS: Yeah! Aren't they amazing? I don't know how they do that. I mean, they get these women to do anything and they pay for everything.

KG: Yeah, well. But they don't have too much pride, either.

JS: Well, and it's pretty gross to…

KG: Those kind of broads. If she's a real girl and she sees like that coming around, she would sit in her hand and put it on the kisser. He can bullshit his mama. Nothing he'll get out of her. He's looking for a meal ticket. He's not looking for love, right?

JS: Right. No, this girl's very nice. Actually, she wants to go to Japan with me, so I might take her over to Japan one day.

KG: Oh.

JS: Check things out.

KG: Actually, when you go there, you should go on your own.

JS: Really!

KG: Yeah.

JS: Why?

KG: Well, there's enough Japanese girls there to go around twice.

JS: Do they like white guys?

KG: Yeah. Americans? You know, there was once the Blacks were real popular when they went over. Just after the war because they felt like were mistreated. They felt sorry for them.

JS: Really!

KG: Yeah.

JS: Interesting.

KG: They had their foot in the door.

JS: Interesting.

KG: Yeah. I know. I lived there for a long time.

JS: Yeah, you know. All right, maybe I won't take her then.

KG: No. That one guy said to me, "Oh, what's up there, man? [sputters jibberish]?" I said, "All you fuckin' Kokujins are the same." Kokujins.

JS: What is it? Kokujin?

KG: Kokujin.

JS: How do you spell?

KG: Well, ko-ku-jin.

JS: Ko-ku?

KG: Ko-ku? Jin.

JS: Okay. Ko-ku-jin. That's funny.

KG: The color black is not the Koku. It's kuro.

JS: So it's like meaning the race.

KG: Yeah.

JS: Okay.

KG: Yeah. The race. The color black is different. It means a color. The color black. [Shiro] is white.

JS: Okay. All I know is oshiri. That's like bed or ass.

KG: Oh.

JS: I know like all the dirty words.

KG: Oh, that's what you mean. Ass is not oshiri. It's [kitsa].

JS: With a k or a g?

KG: [Okiri] Kitsa. Because you got a big [okiri kitsa], huh?

JS: Oh, that's too funny. Man, if your hips were better, I'd take you down there. That sounds like that'd be more fun.

KG: Oh, you know, they want me to come there, already, for a long time. You don't have to take me. They want me to stay there. They even want me to live there. They want to do everything for me, but I can't make that trip anymore. Plus, me. I don't want to live on nobody's back.

JS: And I know that you'd rather just hang out and do your thing instead of feeling like everybody was always around. You'd probably feel like you had to be doing stuff or something, too.

KG: Well, you feel like you're indebted.

JS: Yeah. No, I agree.

KG: But, oh. They ask me all the time. The older company and everything. All the boys. They wanted me. They'd be having a Japanese festival if I would go back.

JS: They what?

KG: They would have a festival.

JS: Oh, yeah. I can imagine.

KG: You're back? Oh, Jesus.

JS: Yeah, geez. Imagine all the girls that I could get if I took you with me.

KG: I don't know because that was not my department. I was always wrestling and that's it.

JS: Well, I'd figure out a way.

KG: Yeah, you would. You Americans are all the same, right? You're all crazy.

JS: It's true. Too much. I'm trying to figure out how to focus on money, though, because I figure that if you chase girls all the time, then sure, you'll end up with a girl but you'll end up broke. But if you chase money, then you'll end up with money and all the girls will chase you.

KG: That's right. You have to turn it around. You know when you fish, you don't try to go and swim with them. You put out the bait and you catch them.

JS: Exactly. Exactly. That's very wise. That's very wise. All right, well, I'll give you a full report on how the date goes.

KG: Okay.

JS: She's very nice.

KG: It's none of my business. The only thing I can say is, "Good luck."

JS: Okay, I'll need it.

KG: All right?

JS: Okay, buddy. I'll talk to you probably…

KG: You know, when I want you [to have] the best of luck, you know how you say that in German, huh?

JS: Hm?

KG: Never tell a guy good luck in German…

JS: Okay.

KG: And especially in business or in sport. They're very superstitious about that.

JS: Interesting.

KG: But what they say is this. Hals und beinbruch. It means break your neck and leg. It's true. I'm not joking. This is God's truth now.

JS: They do that in theatre. I know they do that in the states here. They tell you "break a leg."

KG: But you see, we go even further.

JS: Break a neck and a leg, huh?

KG: Break a neck and a leg. Hals und beinbruch. And then we just said, "[speaking German]." Oh, Jesus Christ. It's just throwing shit on him. There's superstition about it, especially in the entertainment business or in sports or so. Like I told the [throw in the towel]. Some of the old-timers were really bad. But for that, that still is general, you know? You know, always, when you wish a guy good luck, you always say hals und beinbruch.

JS: What does that mean?

KG: Hals und beinbruch. Break your neck and leg.

JS: Break your neck and leg. That's funny. Well, I've already broken my neck when I was a kid, so…

KG: Well, I ripped off half my neck one time.

JS: You did?

KG: Yeah. With a bridge. I ran it outside in the hard part.

JS: Oh, no.

KG: And then a guy wanted me to show how to show him a Front Suplex and he'll win. So, I said, "Are you going to be all right?" Oh, yeah. I'm not scared. So, I went [and HEY]. I stopped…

JS: Oh, no.

KG: And I broke my neck and I got back up and I felt somebody shove me in the back.

JS: Yeah. It burns and stings.

KG: And about a couple of months later, I was in the plaster cast from under my arms all the way to my ass.

JS: Ugh.

KG: Because the muscles along the spine and the ligaments, they were overstitched. The neck was half ripped, but they overlapped them together to make them grow together with some kind of an [ultra-zone?], the thing that go over the [liptic].

JS: Yeah.

KG: Together. Yeah, I had a few bumps.

JS: Yeah, I broke my neck. And actually, I was wrestling, but I was wrestling a guy that weighed -- and I think he was a lot stronger and probably a better wrestler than me. And he really just cranked on my neck and boy. That took me out of commission for a good six months.

KG: See, now that is your problem. You say a lot of guys… Before I could start coaching, one guy got hit. They got thrown. It was Kido's brother. Maybe you heard of Kido.

JS: Yes, I've heard of him.

KG: And his older brother wrestled before him. They were Judo guys. They were good in Judo, but Judo is more of a certain thing on the length. You know, with the jacket. It's not like [Tai-Otoshi]. So, they pushed him and he fell forward and he hit the mat with his head forward and his hands were up. So, he broke something in his neck and he was paralyzed from the neck to the legs. He died about a year later. I went to him see him.

So, when I went there, naturally, he wanted to wrestle, too. In Japan, it's a habit. Like when you become a wrestler, your father brings you to the gym. Like he gives you to me. It's like I have the say-so. And I could see that the old man wasn't too happy, so I found out what happened to the brother. Everybody said, "It will never happen to me. Tell that old man." I said, "No. Before you get on that mat, you bastards be in top shape."

JS: Yeah.

KG: That's why you get the conditioning.

JS: That is exactly right, because when I was Wrestling, I just wanted to wrestle, because I was just so eager and young. And I didn't have a good coach that said, "No, you need to make sure everything is in perfect shape before you do it."

KG: Listen, before you drive a car, right, you're going to drive a car. What do you do? You check the oil, the water, and the gas.

JS: Mm-hmm. You get a tune-up and…

KG: And you know that the tires are right. If you have no water, gas, or oil, that motor won't drive. So if you have no conditioning, you're going to get hurt easy.

JS: Yeah. Boy, I learned that lesson the hard way.

KG: Well, that there happened with me. Maybe they're not happy when they start with me that I tell them things… And it's your best hold, too, because if you've got no conditioning, how the hell are you [going to have technique] when you've got no gas? When you've got nothing to apply? Your best hold is conditioning.

JS: Yeah. I used to be able to wrestle, back then, like no problem, because my cardiovascular was good, but I didn't have the strength, which I think is what really cost me.

KG: Ah, listen. See, it is not strength. I told you before and you didn't listen. When you've got the conditioning set up, know the knowledge. Forget about strength. Leverage. Balance and timing. That's what it is.

JS: No, what I meant was my neck… Because I didn't do a lot of bridging exercises or anything…

KG: Well, you didn't practice conditioning.

JS: Yeah.

KG: Conditioning is doing a lot of bridging. You saw it in that tape that you sent me.

JS: Well, I know that that's what I'm going to be spending all my time doing, now.

KG: Well, all right, then.

JS: Except I've got a date and then after the date I'll start.

KG: Okay. Who the hell you shitting? You know, listen, I'm old, but I'm not dumb.

JS: But you're not that old, huh?

KG: Yeah, I'm not dumb.

JS: All right, sir, well I won't take any more of your time.

KG: Okay.

JS: I'll talk to you soon.

KG: Thank you for everything.

JS: Okay. No problem.

KG: All right.

JS: Okay. Bye.

KG: Bye.

[End Part 1] KG: Hello.

JS: Mr. Gotch?

KG: Hello, there.

JS: How are you?

KG: Okay.

JS: How's the weather out in Florida? Sunny?

KG: No.

JS: Cloudy?

KG: Hot.

JS: Oh, hot. Really? Already?

KG: Sunny and hot. Yeah. It's about close to 90?.

JS: Oh, my God. Too hot.

KG: Yeah. So, what's cooking?

JS: Oh, just hanging out. Had a nice, busy week at work, so this is my weekend. So, now I'm just going to…

KG: Sitting on your fat ass over nothing.

JS: I am, but actually I'm just getting ready to work out. I had a nice breakfast, and I'm going to go work out a little bit and then maybe go see a movie and do some other stuff and just try to enjoy my time off and relax.

KG: Mm-hmm.

JS: That's about it. What's new? Anything?

KG: Nothing. Nothing yet.

JS: All right.

KG: Why? Why are you asking?

JS: Oh, I'm just curious if anything new and exciting is happening over there.

KG: No. Like I always tell you. Same old shit. Just another day.

JS: All right, then. Did you get my letter?

KG: No, not yet. But the mail comes in the afternoon, here.

JS: Oh, really? I sent it like… Geez. It's been a week, so you should probably have gotten it.

KG: With the weekend, it depends. A week, I should have gotten it. But maybe it's less. Well, I went to see it this morning, and there was nothing there, so when they bring it in the afternoon tomorrow, there's nothing because Sunday, huh?

JS: That's weird. I'll have to check and see what's up with that. The good thing is I usually send it… Like they have a thing now that's like a delivery confirmation or whatever?

KG: Yeah.

JS: So, you can go onto the Internet and then check and see what the…

KG: Well, you said about a week.

JS: Yeah. It was just a letter.

KG: Yeah. It is that way. Four days. It depends where it's coming from. Four days to a week.

JS: Yeah.

KG: It was California, right?

JS: Yeah.

KG: Well, it was clear across. Don't forget. I'm completely on the other side.

JS: Yeah, but it's weird, because when I sent you the video, you got that like within three days. But this one was just a letter, so you should have got it like… I don't know. It's weird. I'll have to find out what happened to it.

KG: Yeah. But I know that it's coming.

JS: Okay. So, everything is good. Your health is good. Your teeth are good.

KG: Yeah. I've got to go back. The next thing is tomorrow, the Jap wants to take me out.

JS: Which one?

KG: He's over now. He's already here about five days.

JS: Who? Fujinami?

KG: No, no. Nishimura.

JS: Oh, yeah, yeah. He's still there.

KG: Yeah. He goes regular. He comes just to do things. Then he takes me out and he brings me cigars and things.

JS: Oh, that's nice.

KG: So, it was about six weeks before I heard from him, but he told me that later that it would take about a weekend.

JS: Yes. All right, well, I just wanted to call and check in on you.

KG: All right. So you got me.

JS: Oh, here it is. Okay, wait a minute. I'm going to look this up right now.

KG: Uh-huh.

JS: Man, this Internet is the greatest thing ever. Do you ever use it?

KG: No.

JS: No?

KG: They told me that you had a big article of me on the thing on the Internet. You know? The email.

JS: Yeah, there's a couple of different sites that have your records and stories and stuff like that.

KG: One guy told me. The day before yesterday he told me that there was a… I said, "What the hell they write about me?" I'm two years older than water. But they said no. And there was a thing in it that I was the master shooter or something. I said, "Oh, shit."

JS: Just what you need.

KG: Yeah. Well, shooter. You know, there's an old American expression. In the time, in the West, everybody was carrying a gun, right? But if you had the gun, then you're the number one. It was the top man. They called him a shooter because he could really shoot good. So, the top guys in wrestling were called that, too, because of the hooking they did.

Whenever they said, "Yeah, this is all right," they said, "Oh, this guy's a shooter." And then this clown, he started saying "Shooto. Shooto." He heard that. They never knew about that in Japan. They don't know their elbow from their asshole when it come to that because what they hell is Shooto? At first shoot pronounced the Japanese way. They put an "o" on everything.

JS: Okay.

KG: There's an "o" at the end of the word. Then they know when they have to stop -- when they come to the "o." Otherwise, they wouldn't know. Because they shoot, they wouldn't know. Because they Shooto, they said, "Oh, yeah." That's all of them.

JS: Oh, no. Hey. It says right here it was delivered on Monday.

KG: Monday?

JS: Yeah.

KG: Impossible because you know, I opened the deck. It's a box that they put in all the different… Every apartment.

JS: Yeah.

KG: I just have a mailbox. I'm in 3113. I saw the guy. And I know the guy. He's an Italian. He's middle-aged, but he got that long hair and he always say, "Hello, brother," when he talks. So, always first time, first thing in the morning, before I feed the cat. She's [anxious]. And I go out and I check the mail. Because that's the one from last night.

JS: That's weird. It says that they delivered it. It says delivery confirmation. Well, I guess I'll have to ask about these guys.

KG: Well, I look in this afternoon and then I'll get the confirmation.

JS: This wasn't a package. It was a normal…

KG: A letter?

JS: Just a letter envelope.

KG: Well, that comes regular. You know how it is.

JS: Hm. Well, it was no big deal.

KG: Don't worry about it. It will come.

JS: Okay.

KG: Because don't forget. Down South here, they take things a little bit more easy. The deep South.

JS: Yeah. Well, I just wanted to check and that's good to know that it didn't show up, then.

KG: Well, then I'll get it later. If it's not today, then I'll get it by Monday.

JS: Yeah.

KG: It has to be because that's in a week. For sure.

JS: Well, I can always resend it to you. It's no big deal.

KG: Oh, that's all right. You know, by Monday I should have at least something. Don't worry.

JS: Okay. All right. Well, I just wanted to check in on you, Karl, and make sure everything was going good and…

KG: You know me. Well, I don't have nothing to worry about. If it's not today, it's tomorrow that comes. Of course, there's nothing in a rush, right?

JS: No, it's no rush.

KG: Don't worry about it.

JS: All right, buddy.

KG: You're all set to go out?

JS: Yeah, I'm going to go. The sun is… It's only like 11:00 here in Los Angeles, so I was going to go out. We have some…

KG: It's eleven at your place?

JS: Yeah.

KG: It's a quarter past two here.

JS: Right. You're totally across the country. Different time zone.

KG: Three hours difference.

JS: So, I'm going to go out. You have inspired me to get on the rings. We have some rings out here on the beach, so I'm going to start practicing my muscle-ups.

KG: Yeah, but if you do it, don't do it like this guy. Muscle-ups is good. You start with them. But then, you know, try to work in… What do you call that? Like a little thing on? Like a little program? You muscle-up. From the muscle-up, you do the forward roll. You get up. Bend your legs up and you kick up and you ride in the thing again. Then you try to make an iron cross.

JS: Oh, my God…

KG: You go forward. Go in. Up. And you do it like a [toe up and] dislock. A dislock and hip back. Back in. Up. And you're going to try to make it to a handstand.

JS: Geez…

KG: Yeah.

JS: Well, I think I'm going to try just the muscle-up…

KG: Well, that's the first thing you start with, you know? And from the muscle-up, then the next thing you do is get the dislock. You've get the strength and you've got the agility. Then when you go to work in that, then do a knip up in it. You fold up. Up. Just like you a kip-up on the ground… But you do it in your rings then.

JS: Aye yai.

KG: Oh, yeah. You know that guy thought he… Because he did one, then he said, "No, but I have never seen it." So, I told him. I said, "I wanted to see it." I'm from Missouri. I said, "Yeah, but that's all [to start though]." The other thing he said, "Oh, no!" I said, "Yeah, but you're a baby. You start by crawling, and then you get up and you ride a little bit and then you walk and then you go for a run and then you learn to jump and everything else, too. You don't just stand up for taking a piss and that's it." "Oh, oh, no." I said, "Yes. You always look for the easy way out." I said, "All you assholes are all the same. You want to do everything in three easy lessons, and that's not how a life is built," right?

JS: Yes, that's the truth.

KG: Nothing's easy. Like you. You're working in the bank, huh?

JS: Yeah.

KG: They didn't bring it to you. You had to go for it.

JS: Yeah. It's taken ten years.

KG: And then, you know, when you're in there, then you have to see that you get better so you can get stronger and stronger in your position and go up slowly to make more money and so. Right?

JS: Yeah.

KG: So, by the time you're a little bit less than where I am now, so that you're retired, then you've got something to fall back on. This morning there was a letter when I went to check. That goddamned Greenspan. He wants to get my social security cut and everything.

JS: Yeah.

KG: The guy that mailed those -- those are promises. [Roosevelt.]

JS: Right.

KG: And you pay for it. It's nothing that they give to you. I started paying when I was six years old. Did you know that?

JS: Wow.

KG: When you go to kindergarten. You finish kindergarten. Now you go to -- what do you call that? Ordinary school.

JS: Elementary school.

KG: Then every week, you'll get something and that's what they already put in. You get like a quarter or what it is that you get. Or a half a dollar. And you put that in. You do that in a quarterly period over. You've got a little bit more pocket money. Or your father works, or he don't work and you get a little less. But every week, you get something in the school. So, by the time you're fourteen and you go work, you already have been paying eight years.

JS: Yeah, right.

KG: So, it's much easier that you put it in from when you're six years old. Naturally, it's not a big fortune, but it's already working for you. It's in the bank. That's where I get my money from there. I get my social security here and from Europe, when I left there to come to live in America, I was 35. And before I could leave there, say now, you pay the taxes in 2004, right. Because it's 2005. You pay the tax in 2004. That's everywhere in the world.

But when I was leaving there, and I left, it was 1959 when I came to America. So I had paid my taxes from 1958, but before I could leave, I had to pay the taxes from 1959.

JS: Are you serious?

KG: Yeah, because I was leaving. I was immigrating to America so I was able to be stuck, then, for the taxes. Oh, no. Before I could leave and they would give me the thing there for the consulate and everything, I had to pay the fuckin' taxes.

JS: Oh, my God.

KG: So, I said, "Well, you bastards. You really did it to me." Well, if there was one thing [or another] but I didn't pay it, I couldn't leave. They wouldn't give me that thing from the consulate.

JS: Yeah, that's one thing. They will always get you with taxes. I had a friend. He was a young guy and he tried to…

KG: Oh, yeah. I'm not cheap and I'm just telling you… It's paid 2004.

JS: It's not even about cheating. It's not about cheating. They try to get every little last sum out of you. The problem is they get all that out, but then like you said, there's not enough money for social security. But it's because they don't take the money that you give and then create your own bank account and put all your money in there. It's a transfer. They just take it as money in and then send the money back out to somebody else who's already getting the social security.

KG: Oh, they all steal, you know. You know, me, I don't give nothing to nobody. Like in the beginning, I did. Like they say, like for cancer, or for…

JS: Charities or whatever…

KG: Yes, for the veterans. Like from the soldiers and some other shit.

JS: Well, some of them are good.

KG: But like say if you give a hundred dollars…

JS: How much of it actually goes to help the people?

KG: I don't think that.

JS: Well, it depends. Some organizations are really good. You can go and look at their… And this is because I work in a bank. I know how to look at the financial statements and stuff. Some of them are good, but you're right. And most of like welfare and stuff, it started out with 80% of the money going to the people who needed it and 20% going to the bureaucrats. And it switched. I think by the early nineties, it was 20% of the money that was being taken for welfare was going to the people who needed it and 80% was going to the bureaucrats and the administration.

KG: Sure. Just the opposite, see? That's why now, if I would give to everybody… I only get $620 social security here. But what I got from the house that I sold and what I got from the thing, from the other thing, from across the pond, I get my social security from there. So, like I told you, I started paying early. So, it all adds together so I can live. But I'm lucky that I got that thing, too. You know, the money that I got that I put it in an annuity. Somebody told me.

JS: Oh, that's good.

KG: Because if you leave it in the bank, you didn't get nothing anymore.

JS: Yes, because the interest rates don't pay.

KG: They use my money and they only pay 0.5%. In the beginning it was like say 3% and 5% was a very good one. But hell, no. Now they pay me about… It went to 1.5% and then it went to 0.8% that I got. Not even 1%. Then I met some guy and he was a limey, or something, and he worked at the branch. He told me, he said, [do that]. I said, "Oh, no. I don't want to know when to stop because I don't know nothing about it."

JS: That's so smart.

KG: With a handful of shit. So, the guy said, "No, no, no. You get annuities. They're varied and they're fixed. He said the varied pay more, but you've got to take a chance because you can lose. Take less, be sure, take the fixed ones, and they'll be there. And it's covered by the government." And he said and you've got that. So, I take that. I divided it up with the little bit that I had to make damn sure that everything was covered, and I covered it up in three banks.

So, I got notes in three banks and then I've got the percentage of that and a little bit from the social security. So, I'm all set. It's nothing to brag about, but it's enough to eat, pay my debts, and now I don't have to go through all the money in the month because they pay my cigars and the wine from Japan. They pay me well. I made them millions. They could at least do something for me.

JS: Well, I'll tell you, man. I'm working on that thing that I mailed you. It says it could take up to two weeks, so if it's been fourteen business days from the date of mailing, then it might be lost and you have to file.

KG: What did you mail me?

JS: Like we were talking about putting out the video and making money with that.

KG: Oh, yeah. I still don't know why the hell you want to do that…

JS: Because I'm crazy. I'm telling you. I want to do it.

KG: But I don't want nothing. You can have it. I trust you. I don't want nothing.

JS: I know you don't want anything.

KG: No, listen. It's like this. If you write something, like a contract, I never in my life have signed a contract with anybody. Did you know that?

JS: Really?

KG: Never. Do you know why?

JS: Why?

KG: I'm superstitious about that.

JS: Why?

KG: Not superstitious. I'm old-fashioned.

JS: Okay.

KG: You know what I say? My word. I give you my word. If I give it to you and say, "Hey, you can do it," and I shake hands on it.

JS: But how do we shake hands? Because you're in Florida…

KG: Well, that's good enough. I give you your word and this and that. So, in case we don't, we kiss good-bye. You understand what I mean?

JS: Yeah.

KG: Because contracts -- that's only for the asshole that doesn't trust you.

JS: Yeah, that's true. That's true.

KG: And contracts… How does the old saying go? Are made to be broken.

JS: Yeah.

KG: That's guys that don't trust each other. I trust you.

JS: Okay.

KG: I told you, you can have it. And what you want to do with it…